Hi all,

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I’m hoping that by asking this of a relatively wide group of people, some of whom have had similar experiences, I’ll get a well-rounded response and hopefully know which way to jump!

The problem is this: about three months ago my 9-year old daughter (BTW - I should say first that all three of my kids are aware of my alter ego and totally happy about her and often ask for me to have an Emma evening with them) asked if we could go ‘girly’ shopping together. At the time I said yes we could one day – but only when the time is right (in that she’ll need to be confident about going out with me and I’ll need to feel sure I can cope too). I was thinking years …

I kind of hoped the matter would go away and that she’d forget about it as I realise it’s potentially fraught with problems. I love the idea that she’s comfortable enough with my alter ego to want to go shopping but mindful that she’s also being drawn by the promise of me spending money on her and at such a tender age isn’t aware of the potential pitfalls. In my way of thinking the basic problems are:

1. Adverse reaction to me (never had one yet, and am quite passable, but then again I’ve never been out with my daughter and that may annoy/upset some close-minded types). Naturally, I worry that negative comments will upset her and don’t want her exposed to any unnecessary problems
2. I don’t have a convincing female voice. This makes it very tough to know how we actually make it work on the day in terms of interacting with people. When I go out now I get away with “Please” and “Thank you” and a smile. But not so easy with a child in tow
3. I’m worried I’d be doing it for some sense of self-validation. And I don’t want to let a selfish attitude of “this is me being me – just put up with it” potentially put my daughter in any harm’s way.

Anyway, the question was raised again this week and I haven’t given her an answer yet. Am I being a bit too paranoid, or do you think it best not to go? And then let her down gently and say - some day when she's older? Has anyone first-hand experience of this type of predicament? I feel I am so lucky that all three of my children (all aged 10 or under) are so understanding, loving and accepting, but it’s sometimes a big nasty world out there.

I don’t want to let her down, or make her feel I don’t want to go with her, or indeed make an issue of it that then starts to cast doubt in her mind about the whole TG side of me. But then again, I know I need to be very careful/sensible if we did go ahead with it.

Any thoughts or advice etc, gratefully received. And thanks again,

Best,

Emma.

It is hard for me to give advice when I have no experience of what you have to deal with, with your daughter but a thought has come to me. How about you going shopping with her as Emma but in the company of a real girl like your sister.

Hi Zara,
That's a cool idea actually. I'm still hoping to go out with her sometime and that idea is worth pondering. Thanks hun.

Hi Emma,

I only have one child; a son and he has known since he was 9 about Pauline (he is now 22) but we have a deal that he never sees me "en femme". So my experiences are rather different to yours; even though I was a single parent for his teenage years. And I have never had to face the dilemma of going shopping with him as Pauline.

I think Zara's advice is good - maybe your partner/ wife could be a better choice as the RG companion as they clearly know your daughter really well and she would be comfortable with both of you. Then maybe another time when you have "broken the ice" then just you take her shopping by yourself??

It seems to me that you are not doing it to justify your being Emma; the reverse as your request for advice shows. So don't beat yourself up about that is my advice. Enjoy a day out with your daughter.

On the voice - don't change it. Two reasons - your daughter wont recognize Emma's changed voice and people who hear a deeper voice probably won't notice. Most people see what they want to...you said you are passable so they probably wont notice; and if they do its unlikely people will be nasty.


As an aside there are several well known women with deeper voices - e.g. Caroline Wyatt BBC Defence Correspondent, Demi Moore, Mariella Frostrup, Joanna Lumley or Lauren Bacall - its often called husky or sexy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280377/Forget-come-bed-eyes-come-bed-voice-counts.html

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do; and if you go shopping how it goes.

hugs
Pauline xxx

Hi Emma
I have been shopping with both my daughters but they are a fair bit older than yours and we had no bad coments or any thing at all . I have found that with my girls out shopping with me we get treated like any other family out shopping ,
Just a thought why not go out for a coffee / drink some where first see how you both get on then go from there . I am sure that no shop assistant will say a word but your right there are some biggoted types out there .
I have also found that going out on my own no one says a thing but if i go out with 2 or 3 t girls we end up getting some coment at some point so may be its the numbers that frighten the locals .
I wish you good luck and im sure it will be ok for both of you , Let me know if i can help in any way ok

Becky xx

hmmm thats a tough one but why dont you take her girly shopping in blokey mode first still get things but then if that is a good day then why not go dressed girly the next time xxxxx

i have three grown up daughters,they know of roxyy.but i would suggest that this is your way of life and not your childrens,so therefore be their dad and not mom x

Be careful! I think her age goes against you! Remember that a lot of muggles (general public) think trannies are perverts. AND a LOT of trannies are perverts and sexual deviants! Seeing what is perceived as a 'pervert' out with a nine year old child could cause problems. I remember about ten years ago, a tranny I knew dragged her daughter of a similar age around the Village in Manchester. Most people were worried about how the muggles would react. It was perceived as dangerous, for the tranny and the child. Going out dressed is a blast, its a roller coaster ride, an adrenalin rush BUT keep your heels on the ground sister!

I know I am the conservative voice in here many times. We need to tread carefully in a dangerous world out there. Yes, we have rights and yes, we should push back frontiers BUT theres a time and a place.

My advice, take her out, treat her and spoil her rotten. Leave Emma at home!

Jules xxxxx

you have put that very well julie and yes it is a very grey area and as you say muggles wont be as understanding as we are plus at this years sparkle i did see a guy dressed normal and his son of about 9 dressed as a little girl nd i must say as atgirl i thought how cute and lucky to have an undestanding dad but in the back of my mind come to think of it i was split thinking is that right or wrong i just dont know
so may be for thr best for emma o stay at home until your daughter is older but haveing an 8yr old myself as you say they dont forget and will keep asking

sorry i forgot my xxxxxxxxx
and it should be emma to stay at home im rubbish at spellin lol
xxxxxxx

Dear Zara, Pauline, Becky, Amymichelle Albanie, Roxyy Foxyy and Julie,

Thank you all for some fabulous advice. You all make very good, sensible points and I'm certainly listening and very grateful. Roxy - I totally get it about being her Dad not her Mum, but (and maybe I didn't explain myself well) but in this instance she asked me to go as Emma, not as Daddy. Quite often she picks what she wants me to wear and them mimics it with her own stuff - well, more like I'm a big sister. But it wasn't me taking her request to go shopping and then thinking "Aha! Maybe I can go as Emma then!". But your point is still a valid one.

Pauline - I think maybe the idea of going with another real girl in tow would make sense (when the time is right) and would maybe also protect a bit against the muggles - and it is a real concern. And Becky - I think the fact that your daughters are older - again convinces me the timing isn't right for me/us.

Either way Sophie will get to have a girly day out but my pragmatic side is saying that I'll have to wait for a day out as Emma with her as ... well I just don't trust others' reaction - especially given how young she is. So Julie I don't see you as raining on my parade - just offering heartfelt advice - and I don't mind hearing any conservative voices - I asked for opinions and am listening.

But seeing as I now have some time to prepare, I will work on my sexy/husky voice in the meantime (god I wish Icould get a passable en femme voice LOL)

So yes, Emma stays at home and I will treat my daughter rotten anyway. And hopefully she will keep asking and one day we can have a wonderful day out together.

Many many thanks again everyone.

Hugs,


Emma
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

nice one emma daughters are there to be spoilt and i cant wait to hear about the fab day you have out when the time is right and i hope one day i will be able to have a day out with mine but for now she doesnt know and it will have to remain like that for the time being
i wish you well hugs xx

Have a great time treating her Emma and Minx has offered to go with you one day if it would help.

Emma,

I think it was good for you to have 2 lots of views so you could weigh up what to do. Its never easy, is it?

I know when my ex wife and told our son that I was a T girl it was after a lot of consultation, including the leading Dutch expert on transgenderism. Ultimately we made the choice, as parents that is all you can do. His reaction "so what you still my dad and I love you".

As I said in my earlier posting I didn't have to make your choice and mine was made in the Netherlands not in the UK. On reflection i do think that the advice of Julie H is the most sound and best for you and your daughter.

Enjoy all the time you have now with Emma and make sure she continues to love you as much as she clearly does now.

hugs Pauline xxxx

Hi Emma,

The other way around this is for both you and your daughter (and partner/friend), is to go to another town/village shopping? That way you can relax with your daughter until you are confident with her, she will be confident with you or she would not ask to go shopping hun.

I can tell you, how kids will defend a tg parent, seen it and friends have told me about this defence with their kids.

I go shopping with many friends, those that are not out in their own area, they may come to my little town and feel great, again I will be on the defence. Its what we women do!

The main thing is to hold your head high, try not to do eye contact where paranioa kicks in that peeps have clocked you? Enjoy the experience and chat away wih your daughter?

I appreciate what you are saying, but the longer you put her off, she will begin to feel you are ashamed of her not the other way around, kids are adaptable to sitiations, but ignore their need after a promise, then kids will question themselves hun?!

Please let us know how things go with the shopping trip, and you really have an enjoyable time out with your daughterx

<blockquote><strong><a href="/se4/profile/amymichelle">amymichelle albanie</a> said:</strong><br />nice one emma daughters are there to be spoilt and i cant wait to hear about the fab day you have out when the time is right and i hope one day i will be able to have a day out with mine but for now she doesnt know and it will have to remain like that for the time being
i wish you well hugs xx </blockquote><br />

Thank you hun,
I think it will happen one day - well I really hope so, as it will be lovely for both of us. x

<blockquote><strong><a href="/se4/profile/pauline">Pauline Smith</a> said:</strong><br />Emma,

I think it was good for you to have 2 lots of views so you could weigh up what to do. Its never easy, is it?

I know when my ex wife and told our son that I was a T girl it was after a lot of consultation, including the leading Dutch expert on transgenderism. Ultimately we made the choice, as parents that is all you can do. His reaction "so what you still my dad and I love you".

As I said in my earlier posting I didn't have to make your choice and mine was made in the Netherlands not in the UK. On reflection i do think that the advice of Julie H is the most sound and best for you and your daughter.

Enjoy all the time you have now with Emma and make sure she continues to love you as much as she clearly does now.

hugs Pauline xxxx</blockquote><br />

Something odd goingon with the quote facility! Sorry.

Yes Pauline, I think it's been a really fair and balanced response from everyone and it's been great to have two different sides to explore - and the issues involved. I'm pleased that your son reacted in such a positive way. My children are similarly inclined and say they want me to be happy - and that it's me either way. They're very mature for their ages really.

I was caught by my daughter when I fell asleep on the sofa in girl mode. I woke to find her looking me up and down (it wasn't my plan BTW). Anyway she asked me what I was doing and I told her the truth. She absorbed it, realsied it was the truth and went "OK". And that was that. It was then a case that the boys wanted to meet Emma too and felt left out!!! So I am extremely fortunate. But hopefully it's also down to how we raised them.

Anyway, one day we'll go out girly shopping, but maybe it's best to wait.

Hi Lynne

Thanks for your lovely reply. x

I think you have a point about how children can react positively to a TG parent. I think I need to have a chat with her and explain it's a timing thing more than anything.

And I think the idea of going with a "guardian" makes sense (Zara - please thank Minx for me - I think that sounds great) on the first run. S really does feel comortable with me as Emma so it seems a shame not to enjoy a day out.

But not yet maybe. Will let you know what S says when we chat. She's pretty grown up for her age.

xxx

Emma,

Your own kids can be positive to a TG parent and they can be very defensive BUT other peoples kids can be mean and will not hold back in shouting up!!!! A kid asked my daughter in Tesco today 'if I was her mummy' just because I have long hair in male mode.

Kids can read a TG better than anyone and they will point it out very vocally to their parents and to a whole room!

Lynne, its great you are supporting transpeople but its also important to know when to hold back.

Emma, if you are a transexual then going out so blatantly in public with your daughter is a path you will have to tread. If you're not, who are you doing it for and why? Its very easy to be selfish as a tranny sometimes. I will be in trouble for saying it, but being a transperson is all about me, me, me. My clothes, my gender, my world. Not to say thats wrong, sometimes catering to the 'me' definitely saves the transpersons life and sanity!

Reality check! Heels on the ground..... still LOL

I'll shut up now xxxxxxxx

Julie,

Really....yes really I am not sure where that rant came from...or why the hell you find your character assassination funny. I thought Emma came here asking for help and advice??? Your first post gave that in a reasonably measured way. So what's changed?

I have always subscribed to the view of a Dutch T girl friend from 15 years ago
1. Job
2, Family
3. T girl

.....and not the the reverse order.

Nothing I have read by Emma is counter to that; and you being teased for long hair in Tesco's is surely not a reason to side swipe her or anyone else. Is it????

You are really great at attacking all and sundry here - but I have yet to see a positive comment about anyone or anything.

Why don't you get the sequoia sized logs (chips sorry) off your shoulders and start enjoying life instead of constant sniping and sarcasm.

I have asked you several times now to write a blog or talk about your experiences..and have either had no reaction from you or "I will think about it."
You want your privacy..fair enough....no need to talk about your experiences. But you still want the right to be very critical of others life style choices, and usually bad mouth them. Maybe you don't see a conflict in that?

Your choice.

Pauline xxxx

Pauline, Pauline, Pauline........

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

That wasn't character assasination at all. I was talking hypothetically NOT personally!

It was far from sniping and sarcasm. As for attacking all and sundry here, per-lease!

I cannot believe you would interpret it as such!!!!

I said the same things in my previous post and you were very supportive.

no you didnt say the same

Hey Pauline,

It's okay - I've not taken it as a personal attack.

I think Julie's entertaining a bit of transference or projection maybe as the points seem to be directed inwards at herself as much as out to me (and as she doesn't know me - well they are naturally quite off base actually). But her point is nonetheless valid - even if she's not getting getting it that I'm decided NOW isn't the time to go out with my daughter but ONE DAY it might be

I still want to talk to S over the weekend as I want her to realise why I'm putting it off for now. Easier with my kids to explain rather than shove it under the carpet. She'll be fine.

But the fact I'm trying to be so careful and sensible about this should hopefully be evidence enough that it's not all about me

I think others get that.

No offence Julie. I really appreciate your input.

Sorry about Tescos - as Pauline said though, it sounds like Asda's the place to shop <joke>


This post was edited by Deleted Member at September 23, 2011 10:38 PM BST

As an outsider pick your right option which is not yet in "male mode" or with female friend. I dont have kids so.... but as I have read and I do a lot of that you will be read by younger people or questioned.

I havent been out much and the people I have met I trust their thoughts and compassion (plus humour)

Kelly xx

Hiya girls,
And thanks Emma for instigating this fascinating conversation.

I approach the whole issue from a slightly divergent angle. I believe that as we grow from childhood to maturity we actually construct our own persona.
Our character or personality is not set at birth. We choose most of our personal characteristics and needs and wants and indeed our morality and sense of justice, etc., from the examples that are offered to us ? Who we are is almost an amalgam of the people we know and love and the values they respect.

At a young age, we are very malleable, so, of course, parents have to be wary of bad influences. At the same time, children should not be quarantined from reality or "moth-balled".

Children are smart and have a ready instinct for what is right or wrong or for what is harmful or deleterious. It is built into our genes.

Trust your children's instincts Emma. They are the LOVE you have created.

I say, go shopping with them as "Emma", Emma, and broaden their horizons even further.

Nicky xxxxooOOOXXXOOOooxxxx