Hi everyone,
My name is Amanda and I live and work in Brighton as a personal stylist and burlesque teacher and performer, and am thinking about setting up a finishing school for trans women.

The services offered would be a combination of personal styling/shopping, hair and makeup, walking, posing and posture, female etiquette, dance and much more.

Eventually I plan to host an annual ball!

I would really love to hear your views and opinions on this, and whether you think that this would work, is needed or indeed wanted!

I really appreciate your time and your thoughts.

I'm a GG but I think that's a brilliant idea. I don't know much about the scene but if I lived over there I'd probably want to do it myself.

My friend went and did a Burlesque Dancing day course and loved it.

I really wish you luck with this. Sounds like a great idea.

Adele
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This post was edited by Deleted Member at January 4, 2013 7:20 PM GMT

Quite frankly, and for all the right reasons, I'm all for education in anything that improves the quality of life for anyone, regardless of their race, class or gender... in support of this, there is a Buddhist saying. I'm quite fond of,'When the pupil is ready, the teacher appears' of course being Buddhism, things all not always as they appear. I wish you every success in any future ventureyou may undertake, Mike x

I agree, what an excellent idea. I for one would welcome such an establishment. It would be a huge step on from what is accessable at the moment. If you make a success of it dont forget the thousends of us up north. Get some branches all around the country. xx

It is an excellent idea. I tried to get something similar started in Chesterfield. The council were going to support it and everything but nobody seemed interested.

I'm sure people would 'Want It'... but do we 'Need it' is another matter...

you already offer your services as a "Personal Stylist, Burlesque Teacher & Performer" but as a Finishing School For Trans people would THEY want it..? after all, would there be a demand for a Trans person to live a Burlesque lifestyle..?

if you are teaching Burlesque dance performances for Keep Fit purposes, or even a hobby/past time activity, then it would be very novel and popular in the short term among a small group of Trans people but if you were suggesting a Finishing School for Trans People in a way to 'Educate' them in the ways on How To Be A Woman Naturally then a certian level of scholastic education in the way of Psychology in Human Behaviour would be a MUST or people would have a clouded view on "How To Be A Woman, Naturally" by educating them in your own way, with your own ideas on How To Be a Woman...

if your idea is aimed at the CD/TV portion of the community then fine, but I personally know of no post-op women (or pre-op women) who have been to, or needed, a 'finishing school' to be educated on how to be a woman

my advice is to think long and hard before you waste any of your time and/or money on something which will end far quicker than it started as in my experience the 'trans' community is THE worlds most unreliable bunch as I've been involved in establishing 2 Trans Social Clubs (not sex clubs), the first in Birmingham and the second in London, both had tremendous support on forums/tranny websites, 100's promised to come to the opening... and after months of planning and promoting the grand openings, and sinking a fair amount of our own money into the ventures, only 15 turned up... so I can say with conviction that the biggest percentage of the trans community are un-reliable dreamers... FACT..! (watchout for the pictureless profiles or the ones with only pictures of their legs, they'll be the ones I'm on about)

an old chinese saying goes "if you are not prepared to fail, do not try".. but I guess he was a pessimist.... we should be optomists and not be affraid of tryin and go with the saying "Nothing ventured, Nothing gained"

I'd agree with many of your sentiments Lisa but especially your final sentence. I think for many trans people making the changes to their lives to enable them to live their lives as their true inner self does just seem like an impossible mountain to climb so it is easy to go along with the best intentions which are never fulfilled.

Lisa, that's such a shame. What do you think is stopping people from attending these events?

Do you think its because they're marketed as a CD/TV etc event and the girls/guys are afraid of being spotted attending?

If so, maybe an event could be advertised differently. Only on sites like this. Maybe more discretely for those that haven't come out to their friends and families yet.

I'm just thinking aloud and don't know why there would be such a high proportion of no shows.

Adele
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@Adele: nothing is stopping people from attending these events other than themselves... they can see that they are not alone and they would be made very welcome by others who share a common interest...

I know going out for the first time is a very scarey though when it becomes reality, I've been there and got the t-shirt so I know what others are going through... I think they are marketed correctly but no one can 'give' them the courage to venture outside of their protective bubble which is their own home, that is something which they have to over come themselves...

they do not need to 'come out' to all and sundray as no club I know of want to know who you are or require you to show any ID... the "secret" will never really come out as it is a self-protecting community... your mate won't out you as it would raise questions as to HOW did they find you on a tranny site without raising question on why HE was also on a tranny site....

the simple fact is Adele is that most are fetishists, happy to dress in private and getting into a state of sexual arousal and will 'go along with things' just to be a part of the online community by saying "yes, I'll come" yet never having any intentions of doing so...

@Nell: yes Nell, Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained... whilst me and my friends were not affriad of failing, we did try and organise a monthly social event in Birmingham, when that turned out to be a failiure we tried agian in London and again, we had lots of support and promises from people that "they will come" but never did... but nothing ventured, nothing gained, we learned a very real lesson and gained the knowledge that the tranny community is full of promises which are seldom fulfilled so now I never get involved in anything related to organising anything for the Trans Community... I will however support anyone who is organising something which I think would be a success...

the main thing to remember is the first event is the most important... if only 6 turn up then they will say "not many were there, it was a bit crap really" then that negative comment will keep other people away... but if you could get 50 to attend the first event then they are more likely to say "it was ok, there was a few there, I'd defo go again"... but how do you get enough people there at the first event to get that kind of recommendation to other potential attendees,

look for yourself.... 1000's of members on this site alone, how many with no profile picutre? how many with a picture but no 'Face Pic'? and what is the percentage of the ones registered on Transtastic actually go out for a night out? and what percentage of them are doing it for the sexual thrill? there won't be many M2F Transsexuals who regularly go to BNO's as they tend to live a relatively normal life, but they will go occassionally to keep in touch with CD/TV friends they've made along the way

now here's the proof in the pudding... I've seen many new clubs come, and disappear as quickly as they came... but I know of one tranny club/event which is held weekly and has only been going for a few months and is VERY successful with many trannys attending... but it's a purely a SEX CLUB where t-girls can go and just have sex with other trannies or male admiers.... and THAT is the general demographic of the Trans Community

The best approach for this "Finishing School" is open it for 'everyone' and make trans community aware that they would be more than welcome to attend... but limiting the Finishing School to just t-girls would NEVER be a good idea... not even the 1000's of Make-Over/Dressing Services make enough money to call it a living

Thank you Lisa. I'm sure your experience of this will have given Amanda loads to think about. xx

Lisa please be a bit more sympathetic when tarring us with the same brush. You make it sound like those that are transitioning or about to know all they need to about being women and the rest are perverted fetishists. I think there are 50 shades of grey.
I recently attended my first tranny club (not sex club) and felt bored. I will attend again as I now know what to expect but for a night out as a CD I'll go somewhere a bit more lively and with a mixed audience. And no it will not be for sex, it will be to have fun.
Perhaps the best advice is to aim small and hope to grow. Perhaps 6 for a first meeting is good which I believe was the numbers turning up to drab drinks early meetings.

It is easy to label lots of people in the trans community as 'just fetishists' but I think that a more general demographic is the pressure to conform and the fear of humiliation, rejection and abuse that can happen when people come out. I can certainly understand why many find it hard to take the massive step out from the safety of their own space.

Possibly the reason why some dont have the confidence to get out in the world is that they worry more than others about their deportment and manerisms because they know these things are going to give them away in public. Whether or not such a place as Amanda wants to create is economically viable I dont know but many would benifit from it if they had the opportunity to try.
This post was edited by Gini Mitchell at January 6, 2013 1:16 AM GMT

I can't be more sympathetic and I'm not Tarring anyone with any brush, I'm just being real, which many don't like as it bursts their dream world bubble... it really is a simple fact that the majority are CD'ing purely for the sexual thrill... yes, the MAJORITY, not 'everyone'... I made that quite clear.. I know quite a few Post-op and pre-op girls, I know a few t-girls who are happy with just x-dressing, but I know 100's who do it purely for the thrill of it...

the ones that have, or are, transitioning don't need to learn anything about 'becoming a woman' becuase they already ARE a woman, it's just their body doesn't reflect that... fair enough, 'SOME' women in transition might need help in refining some aspects of themselves, maybe to hide a prominent masculine habit, but it certainly wouldn't warrent any kind of "Finishing School" specifically aimed at Trans people, it would be a complete waste of time and a total waste of money

well done for getting out and about, it's not that scarey really is it... I know there are those that just like to go out, or even happy to stay at home, and x-dress and not for the purposes of 'knocking one out'... the Drab Drink was really for locals 'oop north' and going out in DRAB is a totally different to going out x-dressed...

I do, however, stand by what I suggested. A Burlesque Dance Class/Finishing School would be a novelty venture and I'm sure it would be quite popuplar, but only if it was open to everyone and advertised to the trans community too... it's a very Niche market and wouldn't appeal many within a reasonable catchment radius... specialist clubs come and go very quickly

the best nights are the ones like Leeds First Friday, Notts Invasion, PP's BNO in MK or BP BNO in Manchester... they are just dates, nothing more... dates when there will be lots of t-girls out and about socialising and drinking the night away... I would recommend the Way Out Club in London, it's purely a T-Girl Club and is probably the best in the country, but that's my opinion (it's not a sex club either, but you might get lucky & end up taking some guy/girl back to your hotel... pretty much like any normal bar/club)

Myself and my friends tried opening a t-girl social club/night club, nothing special, just a run-of-the-mill tranny club... we had a full on website, forum boards, support groups, links pages, chatrooms. we offered in-house changing rooms/locker rooms, we had a professional make-up artist for them that wanted guidence, licenced door staff, Disco and dance floor, quiet social area, fully licenced and fully stocked bar. we offered chaperoning from hotels to the venue for newbies... 6 months of planning and promoting and the money came out of our pockets... 100's said they would come to the grand opening... it bombed... so after it failed we tried again in London... with much the same result... which is why I can say with conviction that the trans community are full of promises with no intentions and it'll never change...

Lisa can I ask a few simple questions: first why, if those transitioning already know about being a woman, are they offered female counselling? On how to walk, talk and how to be more realistic. If the NHS recognises this perhaps we as a community should.
Did you realise there was a Drab Drinks in London? And the point was that things often start small and grow rather than come into existence fully populated.
Would you please quantify how small a MINORITY i belong to? I'll help by saying that I go out fairly regularly but will never transition. A rough percentage will do. Perhaps along with the percentage of those transitioning.
Why did you equate 'fun' with sex? I never said anything about being out to end up taking someone back to a hotel! Perhaps this is why I would prefer to go to regular clubs to just have a drink, chat and a dance!

You do make me feel so peculiar. I have not been dressing for that long and almost all the people I know are either transitioning or dress because they like to. Almost none of them dress for the sexual thrill of dressing. I do bump into those that dress for the thrill of it but very few I've talked to really want to stay at that stage but are scared shitless of doing so for all sorts of reasons.

Amanda - re-reading my last post perhaps you should change the name from Finishing School for Trannies to Your Best Day Out Starts Here.

Oh dear... I think you're misinformed.... the NHS GIC' don't offer 'female counselling'... they offer just Counselling and Guidance through the legal process and medical process, they certainly don't teach you how to act... the NHS can provide vocal surgery if required and referral to voice coaching, but at no point do the NHS counsel you on how to be a woman….

Yes, I am aware of a few Drab Drink get-togethers all over the country, something which I can’t attend anymore… lol

As for quantifying a percentage, I’m afraid I can’t help you with that… but it’s blatantly obvious that a significant portion do x-dress for the sexual thrill, maybe you could start a Poll on here asking that very question with the options being A: I dress for the thrill, I feel so sexy when I do B: I dress simply because I enjoy it and not for the sexual thrill C: I have no option as I’m in Transition… I think that would give a general view of things…

I didn’t equate ‘fun’ with sex… I merely suggested that those of us that go out (and do not dress for the ‘thrill of it’) for a night of fun, in the way of drinking, chatting and dancing, can be on the receiving end of someone with a level of charm which would tempt us into some kind of physical pleasures of the body. I certainly wasn’t suggesting if that was to happen then you would slip into another category.

As you’ve said yourself, you haven’t been dressing long so that limited experience you have of the great outdoors will expand, and one day you will see what I’m on about… I’ve been around for a few years…. Plus I didn’t think it as going to be called “Finishing School for Trannies”… but hey oh…

If I am misinformed it was by someone who is transitioning and by the BBC. But I will bow to your superior knowledge.
Perhaps you will bow to mine when I say that you can attend drab drinks in London.
You say a majority but as you will not give any percentage I will be happy to conclude that it is a simple majority of 51% and leave it at that. As you suggested the poll I'm sure you'll be happy to put your name to it.
As you remind me I haven't been dressing for long and I'm hope to hell that when I do have the same level of experience of the great outdoors I am not as cynical as you. I really hope I have more compassion for my friends and acquaintances particularly on this site.

i wanna be a burlesque dancer xxxx

Now there is a thought - Amy doing a burlesque down the catwalk at Ms Sparkle! Go for it.

lol

Lisa, do you think small parties or even individual private classes would work in your experience? x

oooh josephine now thats a fab idea right off to book some lessons xxx

Gee its got rather OTT, and almost personal.

For me any finishing school is about the steps you take on your own journey, so paying someone else for advice may help you, but is a long way from the real answer. And all you do is line someone else's pockets.

Being a T girl has very little to do with being sexually aroused by the clothing, and for many of us wanting to live full time as a woman will only ever be a dream. For most of us its a mixture of guilt and pleasure...and it takes a huge amount of chutzpah to go out for the first time, let alone think about transitioning and all the consequences that that entails.

I personally have never ever believed that all Tgirls or TV/CDs want to transition and live as women full time. I had a discussion with the "head girl" of the Beaumont Society back in 2000 , and was astounded by her assertion that there were 6 million TVs in the UK and they all wanted to be TS. No one knows the real numbers of course, but realistic estimates show between 250.000 - 300.000 TVs; out of which TSs are in a significant minority measured in the hundreds.

And I really do object strongly to anyone hectoring other people's views here. Just because someone does not agree with your view of what is reality in the TG world, doesn't mean that they are wrong. Another word for hectoring is ...bullying, and its not to be tolerated.

This TG website hopefully reflects the world outside and covers a wide range of views and opinions; and of course there is more than one way to TG Nirvana - in my view it is not always transitioning. I will always accept and support that there are sisters who want to live full time as women, and transition - either partially or totally. I expect that they will equally accept and support my view of being TG, which is a sort of half way house...part woman part man. One of my best friends, who was JUST a Tranny, got the Order of Oranje in Holland for her services to the TG community in 2007. There are other ways.

I leave you with a quote from Marcus Aurelius (121 -18-AD)

Everything we hear is an opinion,not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth"

Why not try at least to understand that we are a minority grouping with a broad range of views as to what it is that makes being a Tgirl or tranny.

hugs

Pauline xxxx

Really good post, Pauline. x

There was a show a few years back, I think it was called Ladette to Lady that I thought was quite interesting. They took a number of...shall we say..less than lady like girls and gave them "an old-fashioned five-week course in learning how to behave like a traditional "lady".

I think most men and women would benefit from something like this. Given skills on how to conduct oneself, on various details of etiquette and behaviour. It can only be beneficial surely?

I appreciate this is somewhat different, but I'd give it a go and see it as an extension of my life skills education and take from it what I could and just have fun doing it all the while.

Adele
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