Nicky, thanks for suggesting this discussion to your friends.

OK girls, first my black humour, then on to Jasmine's deep thoughts...oh god here we go.

From the protection of three oceans, in the embrace of wonderous amounts of economic resources, and living in the economy that survived the crash and actually came out looking good and wise, when you Brits riot, you put on a riot! I mean, here in Canada, you are not going to get anyone excited unless they are either winning or losing the Stanley Cup! And then, only a few cop cars get fire bombed and a few windows smashed. Then we get back to being the nice people that we think we are! (OK, we do get a little out of hand, once in a while for political reasons, but for the most part we are so politically apathetic we just don't give a crap, mostly because our two-income families are doing "ok.")

History tells us that life has always been a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite. My most honest and deepest sympathies to the Old Country. Horrible education system, archaic caste system, lack of social mobility or economic opportunity, a large and growing underclass that sees binge-drinking, sports rioting, criminality, and despair as one's lot in life. I weep for thee. From where I am, that is about all I can do. I wish it were better.

Unlike most Canadians, I have been either lucky or unlucky to experience war and witness true poverty and despair. I have walked the valley of death and it is a motherfucker. I have worked for the "man." I have been the "man." And I have rejected the "man" in disgust. The human animal does what it does and because we walk as gods on this poor planet, we manufacture a society that promotes the Alpha-Dog. I am not talking specificly about capitalism, democracy, etc, but that every friggen' system we think up is destined to be mired in some type of elitism (just with less attractive clothes - thank you, not). We are just experiencing a tragic warping of some thing that sounded like a good idea at the time. Teachers and child-care workers end up being less respected than some twit that has her own TV show because she is clueless to the realities of even middle-class life, let alone the hardships of poverty! And we lap it up like the dogs we are! The evil genuis that watches us in our terrianium must marvel at our incomprehensable culture.

If I were a 17 year old boy/man growing up in Craptonshire, I would be a bit depressed and upset with my outlook on life. If I owned an electronics store in Craptonshire, I would fear the seething youth, that tend to be my best customer. And if I were a tranny living her life in Craptonshire, I would have been boarded up in my flat with a spike-heel in each hand and a 9mm in my garter waiting for the mob to hit. But I am not. I am living in a paradise on Earth called Canada, so I watch in disgust, in disbelief (ok, maybe not), in confusion, and worry.

To try and get a handle on the explosion of violence, I took a read of Wikipeadia's article on the riots - a crack dealer gets wacked by the cops, admittedly under unknown circumstances, and it turns into the worst fire-bombing since WWII. I just don't know.

Stay safe, walk tall, wear red lipstick!

Kisses,
Jasmine

PS--Don't get me going on the problems with North America....

Hush to myself... Hush I say... Sorry... I can't help it, I'm about to rant on a glimmer of hope that I might bring some perspective albeit not necessarily even the right perspective xD

I was already writing up comparative history about UK and Estonia, but I'll spare you although as a result my thoughts will probably seem jumpy. What I see is a huge amount of unenforceable laws stopping people from doing anything for their betterment. Like planting a few potatoes or growing cabbages. Every piece of land is owned, every piece of material is owned by somebody due to random circumstance. Most are born with expectation that either they have to work for banks to buy out their piece of land or die trying. This all goes without saying that I do not like to see people riot. In a roundabout way it reminds me of Stanford prison experiment - dark side of people coming out when world seems to have fallen apart.

More specifically I'd say it is a problem with economy that can be so easily cheated by large monetary institutions. There are solutions to these problems. Some of which, especially regarding economic systems, are even within reach of hand of government, but governments are filled with politicians, who are not chosen by their capability of handling or understanding large-scale systems, but by their capability of being likeable. I'll try to not get into different rant xD and I'll simply ask a few questions: What can most of these people rioting expect from life? Without ones own land or place, what would one work for? What would one have to lose without having anything?

The only general solution that seems to work is educating people. Not just children and don't avoid difficult subjects. Speak your mind and make listen to others. As long as there is no physical conflict, both parties can win when talking 1 on 1. Booh, I'm sounding like I'm lecturing and I know that I am not talking even conveying any new knowledge here. Just that sometimes I feel that people forget including myself as well.

I'm stopping my rant now together with generally would have been unbeknown memorable event of even deleting last paragraph that went sooo seriously out of scope of this subject, but I could just go on and on and on xD That also in means that these riot things are probably a bit or a lot over my head at least for grasping them at once, so there's nothing else left to do, but to wish all parts of UK well and hope that things improve. And I mean it, I expect that when I come to visit again, that everything will be as nice as last time xD

Best wishes,
Janice

i agree with rachel and pauline, it is not the fault of one person or group, but it is about time we got out of other peoples countries and leave them to fight their own wars/battles and concentrate on getting ours back to being great again, because we do live in the best country in the world. but the bankers and politicians are making a mess of it, anyhow rioting is not the answer. i won't go off on one as i would be here alnight typing. i loved the opinions and veiws and found most great and making sense, stay safe to all love collette XXX.

It seems like a riot is just the thing to stir up lots of debate and to release the frustrations and tensions of those of us in the wider society (we all have our views and I guess we all feel our views are the right ones).

It strikes me that things like this actually make us stop and think about society, how it functions and our role in it. Most of the time we're so busy living our daily lives that we fail to notice the wider things that are going on. Even if we notice them we rarely question them.

So debate is good, as is being made to sit up and take notice of the way in which parts of our society are disenfranchised/busy exploiting what other parts of society have done (delete as appropriate, depending on your viewpoint).

As for me, well I think that there may be times when we should rebel against the bad things in our society but participating in a riot to nick a flatscreen isn't one of them. If you have a point to make, protest, get angry or whatever, but don't just use it as an opportunity to update your phone or get some fancy jeans.

As an aside, do you reckon that somewhere in London there's a bloke locked up on remand for nicking a designer dress that he thought would work well with his newly acquired Jimmy Choo's? Thought not! Us tgurls are fundamentally nice!

Liz - we really are !!!!

us girls are nice and civil, and have no need to be bad,love collette XXX.

Yes we girls are very peaceful. There does seem to be a bit of a Judge Jeffreys mood about sentencing and although the rioters need prosecuting the sentences do seem a bit OTT in some cases.I wonder if those handing down these senences have thought this all the way through. Some well-enforced, crack-of-dawn, hard-graft, community-cleanup-gang work might be a better option.

Scary that you can get 4 years for facebooking - lets go to a riot - when no one turns up- its like the threat I will kill you which is uttered day in day out without intent through out the world- !!! Scary decision- scary precedents !!!

Seems that the sentences being handed out are much harsher than usual. As with Murdochgate this wont disappear overnight - actually it wont disappear at all until the root causes of poverty and few jobs for the young (there are now almost 1 million out of work under 25) start to be addressed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/18/full-picture-of-riot-sentences

Interesting that now the tide is starting to turn - as sentences are reduced on appeal. Rather ironic isn't it that none of the bankers were ever jailed?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/19/riots-mother-looted-shorts-freed

or just 1 or 2 politicians go to prison, and for a short term, if it was one of us we would get decades love collette XXX.

They should have been shoot in the streets.

The politicians - yes I agree; bankers too. P xx

:)

Whatever your views its interesting to note that yet again the Met have shot an unarmed man - Mark Duggan.

The IPCC investigation is ongoing; the preliminary results have been released. Sorry its from the Guardian, but then it wouldn't suit the Daily Mail to announce this, would it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/18/mark-duggan-ipcc-investigation-riots

doesn't look good for the police if these initial findings are correct. It does say they found illegal drugs in his system which could have given cause for concern, but we will never know the full story here.

And yes the daily Mail would never publish that story!!