Pauline Smith said: ''Emily I am not sure that I agree with your comment below about trans women becoming the new traditional woman.....or the comment above about a classical traditional look (whatever that is?).
"You talk about flats being back in fashion, which makes me think about how genetic women are dressing less and less femininely as time goes on. I almost feel that the trans woman is becoming the new traditional woman, who embraces and likes to embrace their femininity and thinks more the the classically traditional woman, which is what i think a lot of guys find attractive about trans women, but perhaps that's for another topic lol "
I have a couple of theories about cross dressing and being transgendered which challenge that viewpoint.
1. I think we as trans people dress from the era of our mothers or perhaps when we are teenagers. Most of us dress age inappropriately - hence 30 plus and upwards in very short skirts and high heels which is not particularly fashionable in 2015. We all have our own image of what is feminine and it doesn't seem to reflect what real women actually wear. Restrictive pencil skirts and tottering high heels are not a look that many women actually appear to like (its very 1950s when women were repressed and were "home makers" - they could not own property or have a bank account).
2. Real women decide what they will wear and sometimes they wear skirts and dresses - but not often (outside a job where its the uniform). I was there in the 1970s when women fought for the right to wear trousers to work - since then they have taken over as they are more comfortable and practical. Almost 20 years ago I was working on a project with a Dutch woman of 25 - she didnt own a skirt or dress. I lived there for 20 years out of nearly 30 years outside the UK and saw the way fashion changed over that period.
3. Transwomen and cross dressers really do not define what is femininity - real women do that and their fashions and what they wear change over time and reflects their increasing equality in western societies and the many fights they have won in that struggle - the original article in the Guardian is a demonstration of that.
4. Admirers of transvestites, cross dressers and trans women of all kinds are only looking for the tarty look - short hemlines, stocking tops showing and high heels or boots with heels. Their goal is purely to have sex with us. Not a chosen look for many women, for obvious reasons.
You are right fashion is a question of choice and most women have, in my view, opted for the western variation of Indian dress - loose fitting trousers or leggings with a top to mid thigh - for everyday wear. Yes they do wear heels and party dresses when they go to a club etc - they have a wide range of choices and use them.
I do the same - I don't always wear the BB look, for daytime it's more practical but it's my default mode of dressing. In the past 20 years since I have been out as Pauline in both Holland (where the average height of a woman is is almost 6 foot) and in England I have changed my look many times in line with the way women dress (toned down as I am older now so extreme fashions are not appropriate full stop as certain colors also don't suit me).
Do I still wear heels - sometimes, as I put in the opening thread of this forum, which was and is designed for comments. And I do happen to agree with Ashley that most of the trans community are fairly clueless at looking like women. That actually isn't important to them as some want to shock, many only get to dress at events like Sparkle, and most of the trans community is stuck in the closet.
For those in transition like Ashley and others here and out there outside of the on line community the goal is to be accepted; that includes transwomen like me who will never live full time but choose to dress so as to blend in when I am out and about on an everyday basis.
Do I get read - all the time; do I care - no. And I don't mind how people dress - that is their choice. But we as transwomen can never set the definitions of what femininity is - whatever we think in our minds we are or should be and however much we change our bodies and look great - we just can't.
Pauline xxx
PS the trans woman in the cream dress is me almost 20 years ago''
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I cant say i agree with what you said either Pauline, but thats fine, we're all entitled to our opinions and accept we can tend to have different ones. What i meant by classical traditional, i meant an overtly feminine way of dressing with a clear female style, unlike the unisex style that a lot of genetic women seem to have adopted nowadays.
I cant say i agree with your first point, as i personally dress nothing like how my mother did, but the pencil skirts etc you raised is exactly what i was referring to about looking classically female. A lot of women may not dress like that any more, though i'm not sure i agree, seeing as pencil skirts and dresses are still very big, being made and selling well, and its unlikely to be just from trans girl sales, so perhaps i would say otherwise, but what i do know for certain, is that a lot of men do seem to like it when women, cd's, ts's wear those kind of overtly female things, that has been pretty much a constant in what i have experienced and been told guys like, by guys.
I respectfully couldn't disagree more with your third point. In my opinion, cd's and ts's define femininity far more than a lot of born females generally do these days, and that is precisely what i meant when i said that the trans girl is becoming the new woman in society, certainly the kind of classical woman many men like and desire.
4. While i acknowledged that there are people like that, i think you are doing many people a disservice there by describing it as the norm without considering the other. Not everyone is only out for and interested only in sex and the purely sexual look, a lot of people want what most people want, someone that looks nice and dresses in outside appropriate clothes, likes chatting to someone and wants to get to know them better and likes their personality and looks for what any other person looks for in a potential partner and talks how they would talk to of someone of the opposite sex. Just because someone's a cd, its doesn't mean it has to be cheap and not classy, not that i'm saying if that's what they want to do, and some do of course. Perhaps that's a distinction between cd's and ts's, as ts's are not in it for the clothes but its about how they feel and who they feel they are inside, but even then, i wouldn't want to generalise, be it cd or ts as i would say that's also an individual thing.
I just think its dangerous when we start generalising or stereotyping about people as a whole, because everyone's different and an individual, and i also think its not good if we start telling people what they can and can't wear because of how they were born, and i would think that tv's and Ts's would appreciate that more than most, being in the body that society has deemed unsuitable for certain kinds of clothing, who are dictated to by society what the genders should and shouldn't be wearing.. For example a short cd might look bad in heels compared to someone else of the same height, and the same foe someone taller, one person might look great, while another might not, but we can't spend our lives worrying about what an individual might be thinking about what looks good or not good on you, unless they were your partner perhaps, and perhaps not even then, its an individual thing you can't just apply to a blanket group, because its just not that simple, and lets face it, life rarely is lol
Its certainly an interesting topic with some interesting viewpoints.. xx
This post was edited by Emily B at August 1, 2015 5:15 PM BST
